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Thread: Irish Rail Mark3's

  1. #11
    you have got to stick to your principles on this, it may be a small market but it is just as important to those who need your products

  2. #12
    Well there is two ways it can go

    1) Oxford do nothing and it's business as usual
    2) They do a UK 442.

    If 2, I woul expect Irish Mark 3s to appear. Order could be the other way around.

  3. #13
    One of the problems with some modern image rolling stock such as mk3/mk4 and twin container bogie flats is they are very long and don't look as well on typical layouts, which cannot accommodate decent length rakes of long stock items. They can look very odd overhanging shorter radius track bends. You get a more poetic license with shorter wheelbase stock facilitating more realistic rake formation lengths. For example the long MM 201s just didn't seem to sell well and may be in retailers stocks for years to come. Then there is the cost factor of buying a realistic length rake that is also practical to fit and operate on a layout.

    Now if I was modelling in N gauge it would be a different matter because you could easily accommodate an 8 coach rake of 75ft coaches looking well on large radios curves, but it just doesn't work as well in 4mm scale.

    One of the attractions of the earlier eras is you can mix and match virtually any coaching stock, they were shorter 57-62ft, and a rake of 4-6 coaches, or even one plus a heating van looks prototypical.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    One of the problems with some modern image rolling stock such as mk3/mk4 and twin container bogie flats is they are very long and don't look as well on typical layouts, which cannot accommodate decent length rakes of long stock items. They can look very odd overhanging shorter radius track bends. You get a more poetic license with shorter wheelbase stock facilitating more realistic rake formation lengths. For example the long MM 201s just didn't seem to sell well and may be in retailers stocks for years to come. Then there is the cost factor of buying a realistic length rake that is also practical to fit and operate on a layout.

    Now if I was modelling in N gauge it would be a different matter because you could easily accommodate an 8 coach rake of 75ft coaches looking well on large radios curves, but it just doesn't work as well in 4mm scale.

    One of the attractions of the earlier eras is you can mix and match virtually any coaching stock, they were shorter 57-62ft, and a rake of 4-6 coaches, or even one plus a heating van looks prototypical.
    I have to ask this, are you actually saying that the reason the 201's will be on retailers shelves for years to come is because they are too long. I have seen dozen's of UK based layouts that aren't huge, and some could be classified as average sized with full length HST sets operating on them. People have converted garages and attics in standard 3 bed semis and they run eight coach MK111 sets. The model is more important to them than how it might overhang on a certain set of curves. I don't think that the length of a 62 ft timber wagon would turn a manufacturer off of producing one because of overhang. I have seen push pull models on layouts at exhibitions and the layouts aren't wide or more than 16 ft in length. For lot's of folk it's all about the atmosphere that the layout creates, and seeing their favorite trains running on them.

    I do honestly believe that there is a huge gap to be filled in the MK111 class of Irish coaches and my own personal preference would be push pull sets, especially with the MM 121's on the horizon. If there were any people seriously worried about room, they could accommodate a short push pull set of MK111's, there are always options.

    Rich,

  5. #15
    I think the only reason the 201's are slow sellers is due to the large number of Lima models already in the market and some people are perfectly happy with them. Remember the 141/181's from Murphy also didn't disappear immediately.
    Irish model market is limited, when compared with most markets it is tiny. We are very fortunate that people like Murphy models took the initial gamble and that them and IRM continue to invest and strengthen the standard of RTR models.
    Back to Mark 3's, I think we will see better quality ones sometime as they are just such an iconic coach.

  6. #16
    Oxford Irish coaches due in shops 2019 according to Oxford themselves May even do a gen can cost depending.

  7. #17
    Hi Rich

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRich View Post
    I have to ask this, are you actually saying that the reason the 201's will be on retailers shelves for years to come is because they are too long. . . .
    Combination of reasons. Lack of compatible RTR rolling stock, the Lima effect, and yes IMHO, shorter wheel base stock will have a broader appeal and wider target market. Another reason may be the 201 prototypes may not have as much nostalgia appeal as the earlier GMs due to the predominant age profile of the hobby, and the very distinctive shape of the older locos with walkways and rails just makes the models more desirable than the plain shape of the modern locos.

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRich View Post
    I do honestly believe that there is a huge gap to be filled in the MK111 class of Irish coaches and my own personal preference would be push pull sets, especially with the MM 121's on the horizon.
    That makes a lot of sense re PP where shorter rakes won't look out of place. In IE 121 hauling two or three coaches and a DVT would fit in well on any size layout.

    I travelled more miles myself on mk2 and mk3 but bizarrely my 'nostalgia' memory prefers the look, operating fun and great diversity of older stock when playing model trains, but that's just a personal thing. I actually have a 201 but its more for a display case and don't plan to drive it on the layout.

  8. #18
    PS: Just wondering as there are plenty of RTR BR mk3 coaches already available, despite the small differences, but that are relatively easy to respray or commission resprays, would an IR Mk4 coach be a more attractive proposition for some Irish model operators? There is no RTR remotely close to them in terms of shape, they are unique Irish prototypes, and probably the most attractive looking livery ever to run on Irish rails.

    Just a thought (goes against my length reservations)

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warbonnet View Post
    We were actually approached about 18 months ago by another established manufacturer who wanted to produce a new British Mark III with a view to collobrate with us to do a kosher Irish version with proper prototype fidelity. This would've been a top of the line, bang on Irish outline Mark III with the proper doors, details and Genny van etc. However, Oxford beat them to the punch in the UK with their announcement and the project was halted.
    THat's a shame. I had picked up on the hints last year and was disappointed when some announcement eventually did not follow. I'd like a whole rake in Supertrain livery to be honest, for those of you who think it's drab, that's fine, but these coaches looked very well in that livery
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/tramfan/14647733553/

    Quote Originally Posted by RedRich View Post
    I do honestly believe that there is a huge gap to be filled in the MK111 class of Irish coaches and my own personal preference would be push pull sets, especially with the MM 121's on the horizon. If there were any people seriously worried about room, they could accommodate a short push pull set of MK111's, there are always options.
    Yes, I have to agree with that. It might not be the best economic sense for a manufacturer but I can tell you there will be many modelers who come into the hobby in the next few years who will be happy that some are still available other than through the 'Bay or similar at a premium price
    Last edited by DiveController; 29-06-2017 at 02:38 PM.
    "Where Seventeen Railroads Meet the Sea"

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Noel View Post
    PS: Just wondering as there are plenty of RTR BR mk3 coaches already available, despite the small differences, but that are relatively easy to respray or commission resprays, would an IR Mk4 coach be a more attractive proposition for some Irish model operators? There is no RTR remotely close to them in terms of shape, they are unique Irish prototypes, and probably the most attractive looking livery ever to run on Irish rails.

    Just a thought (goes against my length reservations)
    You brushed on this before and even admitted to owning a 201

    http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/show...idea-or-doable
    "Cool Hand Blaine"

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