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Thread: New Diesel Arrival

  1. #11
    Senior Member jhb171achill's Avatar
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    This lining is uncertain. Memory suggests white lining and many photos show this. Others show a dark colour.

    Thus there are two possibilities. One is that some had a dark coloured lining and others didn't; seems improbable but not impossible. The other is that whatever they used to make the white lining attracted dirt very quickly, which stuck to it.

    Jury's still out but intend to get to the bottom of it!
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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jhb171achill View Post
    This lining is uncertain. Memory suggests white lining and many photos show this. Others show a dark colour.

    Thus there are two possibilities. One is that some had a dark coloured lining and others didn't; seems improbable but not impossible. The other is that whatever they used to make the white lining attracted dirt very quickly, which stuck to it.

    Jury's still out but intend to get to the bottom of it!
    If the issue is with B&W pictures, it can be a matter of whether Ortho- or Pan- film was in used. Yellows came out very differently depending on which was used.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchromatic_film

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthochromasia

    My best work has been spread over many fields..

  3. #13
    Senior Member DiveController's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhb171achill View Post
    This lining is uncertain. Memory suggests white lining and many photos show this. Others show a dark colour.

    Thus there are two possibilities. One is that some had a dark coloured lining and others didn't; seems improbable but not impossible. The other is that whatever they used to make the white lining attracted dirt very quickly, which stuck to it.
    The reason that I brought it up was that this loco is so new. However, dirt sticks quickly with steamers still around etc. Even newer photo probably sitting on her bogies for the first time at North Wall which suggest you're correct about the lack of a black line, although I don't see any here to be honest. Were they stripes on the skirt sprayed on, or applied like Tippex lines on later liveries?
    Name:  121 new north wall.jpg
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    I have forgotten to whom this should be credited and i apologise in advance

    Quote Originally Posted by Broithe View Post
    If the issue is with B&W pictures, it can be a matter of whether Ortho- or Pan- film was in used. Yellows came out very differently depending on which was used.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchromatic_film

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthochromasia

    That's very interesting, Jim as we have tried to infer color between B&W photos before. I suppose in a single photo the colors would at least be uniform and the there's definitely some lining issue on the snails and number which des not appear to occur between the body color and lines on the front skirt
    Last edited by DiveController; 11-03-2017 at 01:43 PM.
    "Where Seventeen Railroads Meet the Sea"

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DiveController View Post
    That's very interesting, Jim as we have tried to infer color between B&W photos before. I suppose in a single photo the colors would at least be uniform and the there's definitely some lining issue on the snails and number which des not appear to occur between the body color and lines on the front skirt
    Without a known reference colour in the picture, it can be difficult to be sure - in general, older is ortho- and younger is pan-, but there was a lot of overlap time. Yellow is the most awkward colour - it can be dark or light. As you can see from the two pictures, you have little chance of being sure, unless there's something in the shot that you can be confident of. You could have two B&W pictures of the same yellow stripe and see one as dark and one as light on the final print, yet the engine would look the same grey in each picture.
    My best work has been spread over many fields..

  5. #15
    Two (different, unfortunately) Spitfires - note the yellow outer ring on the fuselage roundel and the red (forward) stripe on the fin flash.

    Ortho-
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    Pan-
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    Also, the blues have quite a difference, too. The fin flash appears to have the colours reversed between the shots, but RAF is always red at the front, blue at the back.

    Guessing colours from B&W with no reference points is a dodgy game.
    Last edited by Broithe; 12-03-2017 at 01:51 PM.
    My best work has been spread over many fields..

  6. #16
    Hi

    This discussion on the 121 livery took place some time back in another thread but I cant find it.

    In researching the livery for a 121 kit I'm working on(from time to time!) I came to the conclusion that its a gold line! added to the front and rear logo/numbering and not on the side, this lead me to believe it was done for visual reasons, you can see the grey and yellow have poor contrast with each other in the above photo- especially at a distance.

    If you check out the 121 colour photos in the Huntress book and the Boocock book you'll see its back n front only, especially the Huntress photo of the cab end in the sunshine its not black or white, its kind of brown!

    Eoin
    www.ecmtrains.com - Manufacturing the Model Dart

  7. #17
    Check out Tom Ferris Irish Railways in Colour Book One. Page 93.
    It doesn't look to be gold, but yellow with black lining as it matches the yellow solebars, handrails and apron striping.

  8. #18
    Even with colour films, there's often a good variation.

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    And even looking at it directly with your own eyes, it depends on the light you're seeing under - and then you need to consider the light that you will see the model under - and there is a strange aspect of "scale" to colours - even using the exact paint can "look wrong" in the end.

    Looking 'right' may be more important than being correct.


    It's a minefield. Name:  flame-explodingsmiley.gif
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    My best work has been spread over many fields..

  9. #19
    Taking it even further, you may find, and more so as you get older, that you even see slightly different colours with each of your own eyes. This usually manifests itself first with pale white / cream / grey colours.
    My best work has been spread over many fields..

  10. #20
    Hi

    The Ferris shot is a bit dark and hard really to tell, Ciaran's shot on his site, is in good light and it doesn't look like black;- http://eiretrains.com/Photo_Gallery/...0001_CC_JA.jpg

    and there is this stuff also;- http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/show...ll=1#post63616

    Eoin
    www.ecmtrains.com - Manufacturing the Model Dart

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