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Thread: Railcar B

  1. #11
    Senior Member jhb171achill's Avatar
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    Just to clarify, Mayner & Rich are of course quite right; in saying the thing was a one-off I was referring to the original question as to whether it was related to the 2600 (AEC) cars or not.

    As Mayner said, it was a development of the older GNR artic cars, but they were obviously Gardner too, and themselves no relation to the 2600s either.

    Personally I think that the old AEC cars and their BUT compatriots were the most comfortable railcars ever to run.
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  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jhb171achill View Post
    Just to clarify, Mayner & Rich are of course quite right; in saying the thing was a one-off I was referring to the original question as to whether it was related to the 2600 (AEC) cars or not.

    As Mayner said, it was a development of the older GNR artic cars, but they were obviously Gardner too, and themselves no relation to the 2600s either.

    Personally I think that the old AEC cars and their BUT compatriots were the most comfortable railcars ever to run.
    John,

    John,

    You pose an interesting question - "I was referring to the original question as to whether it was related to the 2600 (AEC) cars or not". (Do you mean the GNR 600 Series,(1950), or CIE'S 2600 Series - (circa 1951/1954?} May I suggest, It is unlikely the SLNC would have considered a vehicle that resembled the GNR's 600 Series Railcars as a Benchmark Model. These cars were ordered from AEC in 1948,thus they were not built yet and were only drawings. However, The Great Western Railway of England, single Car, Dual Driving Units, had been built. Therefore, there was a proven vehicle available, and one that was a possible candidate for consideration? On this basis it would appear highly unlikely that the design, or mechanical parts were considered as relevant to the SLNCR needs when they considered and commissioned their Railcar B from Walkers of Wigan!
    Last edited by Old Blarney; 13-12-2016 at 02:02 PM.

  3. #13
    is this the railcar that laid delerict in the old engine shed at LJ in the late 70s or early 80s. I rember seeing something like it there on a visit , but sadly took little notice or is my mind playing tricks

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Junctionmad View Post
    is this the railcar that laid delerict in the old engine shed at LJ in the late 70s or early 80s. I rember seeing something like it there on a visit , but sadly took little notice or is my mind playing tricks
    Yes, it is.

  5. #15
    Senior Member jhb171achill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Blarney View Post
    John,

    John,

    You pose an interesting question - "I was referring to the original question as to whether it was related to the 2600 (AEC) cars or not". (Do you mean the GNR 600 Series,(1950), or CIE'S 2600 Series - (circa 1951/1954?} May I suggest, It is unlikely the SLNC would have considered a vehicle that resembled the GNR's 600 Series Railcars as a Benchmark Model. These cars were ordered from AEC in 1948,thus they were not built yet and were only drawings. However, The Great Western Railway of England, single Car, Dual Driving Units, had been built. Therefore, there was a proven vehicle available, and one that was a possible candidate for consideration? On this basis it would appear highly unlikely that the design, or mechanical parts were considered as relevant to the SLNCR needs when they considered and commissioned their Railcar B from Walkers of Wigan!
    I referred to them as 2600s as the original question described them in those terms. The GNR's AECs and CIE's were the same design bar a few details, and mechanically (though not at all cosmetically) were similar to the GWR's streamlined ones. In traffic, in railway days, they were collectively always called AECs. Indeed, describing them as 2600s could cause confusion with the modern plastic 2600s, built by Mitsaokorea-SiemensCAF in Cobh.........!

    Gardners were early railcar experimenters. With the co-operation of the GNR in Dundalk, they turned out those early articulated units - both the double ended ones and the articulated pairs like the ones Mayner referred to in Australia (of which one at least, I believe, is preserved in operation order; I'd love to see it. I could post pictures of it and they be the right way up.)
    The type of technology, the type of design, ised by AEC in Southall and Gardners / Walkers in Wigan were entirely separate and thus "B" was a one-off production and design.

    It is to the credit of the DCDR that it has been saved, though it's lucky that CIE's "preservation" of it didn't involve its earlier destruction by the weather, and by certain citizens of our community who took an interest in its aluminium window frames while it was stored in either Limerick Junction or Mallow.

    Senior was in Enniskillen when "B"" was running and knew the traffic manager well; his verdict was that the thing was a great success and very reliable. it fulfilled the SLNCR's needs more than adequately. they were only interested in a single vehicle, not any sort of railcar set, as passenger traffic levels almost never warranted more than one passenger vehicle. My late mother's recollections of travelling in it were to the effect that it wasn't exactly full of people. My guess, from what she said, was that typical loads might be 20-40 people. naturally, when there special trains for pilgrimages or GAA specials, more accommodation was needed. This - in latter days at least - tended to involve the company pressing all three of their (by then) seriously neglected bogie vehicles, along with their equally dilapidated 6-wheel brake 3rd no. 4, and borrowed stock from its neighbours. This was often ex-MGWR six wheelers from CIE (bringing green and flying snails into Enniskillen or further), or a couple of elderly bogies from the GNR.

    I have it on anecdote that the traffic manager in Enniskillen was mortally embarrassed on such occasions by the state of his own three bogies compared with neighbouring CIE or GNR stock, as the maroon paint had badly faded to a nondescript uneven pink or browny red. The paint was peeling off, to an extent I've never seen on any operational vehicle. The interiors were, I am told, tired, old and musty!

    On an aside, I wonder about the green livery of the SLNCR locos in pre-1915 days as shown on Arigna Road. There were several variations of green, and possibly at different times two very different shades used. I'd be interested to know exact details...... certainly, by at least the late 30s (when Senior first went there), all was black on the SLNCR. It looked very stark - but smart - compared with the unrelenting grey of the GSR.
    Last edited by jhb171achill; 13-12-2016 at 03:23 PM.
    “An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support”

    Never argue with an idiot. He will bring you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  6. #16

  7. #17
    For the provenance of Railcar B we surely have to look no further than the Clogher Valley Walker railcar and its Donegal offspring. Railcar B was more or less just a narrow gauge car on steroids.

  8. #18
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    That has always been my view, Rich, though I bow to others' expertise. Nevertheless, CVR 1 went to the CDR and subsequent versions soon got longer, with full width cabs. A likely factor in the SLNCR railcar being driven from both ends was that it was too long for their turntables, so it was a simple case of evolution I'd think
    Whither atrophy?

  9. #19
    Senior Member Mayner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Holman View Post
    That has always been my view, Rich, though I bow to others' expertise. Nevertheless, CVR 1 went to the CDR and subsequent versions soon got longer, with full width cabs. A likely factor in the SLNCR railcar being driven from both ends was that it was too long for their turntables, so it was a simple case of evolution I'd think
    Atkinson Walker developed a diesel train that could be driven from either end during the 1930s supplying 4 complete trains to the GNR railcars D,E,F&G. Similar cars similar mechanically to F&G were supplied to Australia shortly after Railcar B was supplied to the GNR.



    Really like the sound of those twin Gardiner engines
    John


    If I was going there I would'nt be starting here.

  10. #20
    Driving a semi-permanently coupled unit like that from either end can't be too difficult, I guess. Steam railcars had been doing it for a very long time and petrol railcars since Edwardian times.
    I think the big advance in the 1930s was being able to couple and control several units at once.

    Interesting that Stadler have gone back to producing railcars with a central power unit and articulated passenger sections at the ends - just like the Walker car in the video. I rode some in Greece and they were very rough riding - though the track can't have helped!

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